Popular Post gee_fin Posted May 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2017 Well, the ridiculousness continues. It seems that 700bhp/tonne is no longer enough... I have been running a Westfield MegaBusa turbo in Barbados for the last 3 years, with one eye on drag times, the other on road fun and a third eye on Time Attack/track days. Things going well, working through teething issues, managed to get the island 2WD record (7.2s 1/8th), the car is about 500kg and 350bhp, car close to being 100%, all was looking rosy until Dan Johnson came along with the electric Westfield MegaWatt and moved the goalposts. He smashed the 2WD record (now down to a 6.4s 1/8th) and is now chasing the outright island (and world road-legal electric) record. I could up the tyres a bit (he runs 10" wide drag slicks, I'm on 8"), up the turbo a bit (the little TD05 isn't really pushing much useful air past 20psi) but after someone decided to buy my car the decision was made for me. Can't believe we've reached a point where 700bhp/tonne simply doesn't cut it! So, time to chase Dan. He has about 600bhp/1000ftlbs all be it through one long gear. What to do? Well, in an arms race it's best to be so far out in front that noone even considers challenging you. And with that in mind, this project was kicked off... likely my last all-out combustion build before having to submit to the inevitable electrical juggernaut. No corners cut, absolutely out-to-all on every component. Engine is sourced, simulations have been ran on the build spec, looks like we will be in 1500-2000bhp/tonne territory (I did say it was getting a bit ridiculous), we've been going through the spec on a near daily basis with Luke at Plays-Kool who will be undertaking the build - aiming for the Barbados Festival of Speed later this year - as you'd expect, quite a number of things to figure out but regardless - let's do this! 14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The artist formerly known as Rush Motorsport Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I can't wait for this....! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Podmore Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Can you ever have enough power? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 Starting with the most important thing - the steering wheel! I don't know, I just have such a fetish for the intricacy of these, always chasing that practical F1 wheel... Anyways, I built my last few, but time to face facts - I completely suck at wiring. I'm just rubbish at it, totally dyslexic at making it look right and work consistently reliably. So, as this build is going all-out, I got in contact with the guys over at Fi Tech, they make some truly gorgeous wheels. Some discussion later, settled on a Momo Mod 11, 280mm, using the Rapfix boss with the Rapfix electrical quick-release (needed 12 channels for this wheel, so couldn't go with the Freewheel :'(). We'll be going with the AP clutch release cylinder wired into the ECU so time to get some funky clutch paddles on the wheel ala the one below - Then the usual steering wheel buttons for launch/traction, line lock, dash control and up/down paddles. Great company to deal with, they Skype'd/TeamViewer'd me into a live design session to ensure the housing and positions of buttons were all correct and as desired! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 following with interest For drag racing I would like an LS9 with torque tube mated to a transaxle. Basically ZR1 running gear in a Westfield 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 Funnily enough, looked into the yank V8 route, even towards Indycar engines (various 2nd hand ones for sale for reasonable money) but just couldn't bring myself to do it. not my cup of (insani)tea Snagged the gearbox last week. Was looking to Sadev, Drenth or Tractive, particularly keen on the Tractive but a nice fresh Quaife 69G came up. It's their heavy duty straight-cut sequential dog box (6 speed), should be able to handle the power. Handily comes with the Motec/Hollinger paddle mechanism so that saves a bit. Have to think about where to mount the oil cooler for it now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanspoors Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 How much of the BHP do you think will be useable on such a lightweight car? I'm building a 1400cc Supercharged Hayabusa at the moment (well Luke at Playskool is finishing it off for me) but I've had been told on a few occasions now and read on various forums also that 350-400bhp is too much for such a light car and that it's wasted money. Personally, I just want something to scare me and hopefully not try to kill me when I drive it. 750bhp will be nuts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Deanspoors said: How much of the BHP do you think will be useable on such a lightweight car? I'm building a 1400cc Supercharged Hayabusa at the moment (well Luke at Playskool is finishing it off for me) but I've had been told on a few occasions now and read on various forums also that 350-400bhp is too much for such a light car and that it's wasted money. Personally, I just want something to scare me and hopefully not try to kill me when I drive it. 750bhp will be nuts! My original turbo Busa with 350bhp is near unusable on the roads out here - gets wheelspin in 4th with the traction off (the roads here are very slippy though). So as a road car, anything over about 300bhp/tonne is completely pointless from the point of view of exploiting it on the road. Always nice to have what feels like a nuclear weapon under your right foot even if you don't get to exploit it... On track, the quickest cars to me are still a proper Duratec with a decent Sadev all setup solidly with good suspension - 500-600bhp/tonne on slicks. However, we're going for drag and complete insanity, don't really care about getting to use it all out on the road. The MegaWatt is ~1200bhp/tonne, with better rubber it's putting nearly a second on my 700bhp/tonne in the 1/8th alone. It however is losing another 0.4s to the leading Evos (all be it they are killing us out of the hole currently). But, the fastest drag cars in the world are all 2WD, not 4WD... so just a case of getting that formula right... Part of the fun of this project will be finding a way to get the chassis to take the power, but also figuring out the mapping/tuning to make as much of the power usable as possible. Will be doing fancy things with boost by gear, traction and G sensors and likely going to 12" drag slicks on the back for drag. Will be F3 slicks all round for track work. On the road, likely a map to give 1/2 or a 1/3rd of the power! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin#30 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 What a great project, looking forward to reading this as you progress. I have 400bhp/400lb-ft in mine, and it is far from unusable. Traction limited for sure, but that will be the fun part to improve that over time. Very keen to hear what you will do diff wise. The big torque diffs all look like a packaging nightmare to me. Martin. Ps: very envious of your 69g. Love a it of gearbox porn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The artist formerly known as Rush Motorsport Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Now stop being coy, whats the engine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Oxfordshire Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Cool, looking forward to this...How about 4WD? Electric power on the front, petrol for the rears....Hybrid Westie! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 05:45, Martin#30 said: Very keen to hear what you will do diff wise. The big torque diffs all look like a packaging nightmare to me. Still in discussion somewhat and likely going under the guidance of Plays-Kool 100% for this one. The Sierra 7" diff with the Quaife ATB internals in the MegaWatt have held up very well so far, even with the big launches on drag slicks and immense torque, however, that's just one gear. Luke seems keen on the Subaru rear end route, BMW is another potential option. Either way, it needs something to handle north of 700bhp through all the gears... In discussion with Siltech about a beefed up micro-adjustable rear end as well, as would like larger rose joints/mountings on the wishbones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 V8 (2 x busa's a la atom v8)? Or as the name seiynergy maybe suggests petrol/electric hybrid and you've got your mad electric mate building in some motors? Must be something lightish to get the pwr to weight? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, David_Thame said: Cool, looking forward to this...How about 4WD? Electric power on the front, petrol for the rears....Hybrid Westie! Won't be any room up front But also nah, although yes it makes more sense, the idea is I want to beat electric with this one, not join it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gee_fin Posted May 9, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 9, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 06:01, RussH said: Now stop being coy, whats the engine? On 5/9/2017 at 09:50, sdh2903 said: V8 (2 x busa's a la atom v8)? Or as the name seiynergy maybe suggests petrol/electric hybrid and you've got your mad electric mate building in some motors? Must be something lightish to get the pwr to weight? We have a winner, just about... I looked into Judds initially, always been such a fan of George Plasa's car, but it's just unworkable - wouldn't be road usable, silly money, hard to get parts, short rebuilds, etc. Then briefly considered the yank V8 route, but they just don't do it for me. Too easy, too common, too American. Twin bike? Loved them, but they never seemed reliable in the transfer box department. So left that one alone. Geoff Page Racing has a very interesting Busa based flat four turbo, with over 500bhp, but while it would probably have been the 'sensible' decision, I want something insane, something that makes your spine tingle and your heart skip a beat. A search round the motorsport classifieds sites turned up a few interesting things like old Indycar engines, some interesting BMW touring car engines and such like. The closest I came to was probably a few of the Lotus GT3 V6s for sale, but again, just didn't spark with me. I was actually quite close to building a V12 DDR kitcar - love the look of them, but they were so crap on email and response I decided to go with what we know and love - Westfields. So, finally settled on doing a macroblock (bike engine V8). Always liked them, always wanted one. I realise Caterham did a demo one a number of years ago, but this build will be quite different... The quirk of this build is that I don't want a naturally aspirated macroblock V8 - I want a twin-turbo one. I couldn't beat the MegaWatt with one bike engine and one turbo, so I'm going with two I tried contacting Radical about their RPE V8, didn't even get a response. A shame as we have some good Radical support out here with a permanent race series of the SR3s, but so be it. Next up was John Hartley Engines in the US. He's done some sterling work on a Busa-based one with great results, however, the quote back from him was immense as was the lead time. The whole build really. I just got the impression he's not really interested in building one and/or is happy with his current workload and as such didn't need or wasn't bothered about the build. Then I found Synergy engines out of New Zealand. They have nearly a decade under their belt of their Kawasaki-based V8 development. They were instantly responsive and very interested in the project. Stating although the twin-turbo aspect is outside of their warranty/proven area, they would be keen to work with us in developing a solution. Talking through the spec of the engine I wanted they were on exactly the same page - the price is good, the lead-time is good and so ahead we go. This is their naturally aspirated engine :- The spec of the twin-turbo version has some secret bits in there while we go through the dev phase, but shares a fair amount with the known entity above. It will be revving to nearly 12,000rpm, expected weight around 90kg, billet block, ZX12R based heads, V8 (obviously), 5-stage dry sump system, flat-plane crank, individual fly-by-wire throttles, twin roller bearing turbos with twin external wastegates. I'm pretty sure this will be one of the best sounding engines ever put into a vehicle 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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