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robhume

Building my Eleven

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robhume

It's been a while since I put anything on here but I have been busy with the build working towards taking the car to do the Hill climb at Etretat in France

during the August bank holiday weekend.

Brakes, (now with bias bar) done as is the clutch and the wiring and ECU fitting is progressing well.

Lights are all in place and Perspex covers fitted. six point harness and 4lt extinguisher ready to be fitted.

With change of engine from midget to zetec, the front clip will have to have a bulge made and a good friend has

produced an ali shape that should fit the bill.

Hopefully the engine should be running by mid week, fingers crossed. 

more hybrid wiring.PNG

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi, Rob,

That sounds like an awful lot of progress has been made and you have the remainder of the work plotted out.  Good luck with getting the engine running and then I look forward to the exciting update from France!

Simon

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robhume

Hi Simon,

Yep quite a bit and I also, acted as a club steward at Hethel, so doing my bit. 

Front lights in place

 

DSC_0216.JPG

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Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary
33 minutes ago, robhume said:

Hi Simon,

Yep quite a bit and I also, acted as a club steward at Hethel, so doing my bit. 

Front lights in place

 

DSC_0216.JPG

Nice alternative colour, too.

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

When I went to Westfield to put my money down on my kit, I wasn't told that alternative colours (other than Westfield Racing Green) were available.  I suppose that It saved me a decision to fret over but Rob's dark blue car is rather nice!

Simon

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robhume

Unfortunately the engine is not yet running.

When the base map was being loaded, for some reason the ECU randomly disconnected, a process which corrupts it.

Replacement ECU on they way.

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robhume

Good news today, engine is running and had an initial map and showing in excess of 160 hp from a 1.8 zetec with 130 cams and throttle bodies.

With a full session it is expected to get about 170hp which I think is good for a 1.8

And for anyone interested the cooling system is using a standard Midget rad with the Westfield fan controlled by the ECU

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Well Done, Rob,

170bhp!  That will be impressive based on my experience with 106!

Simon

 

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robhume

Moment of panic.

The car is sitting on the bump stops and the spring platforms have been wound up about 2".

The original springs supplied for the car built with the midget engine are 350 pounds, should I go more pounds

or am I missing something.

I know the Zetec engine is heavier than a midget engine but looking at other build threads on "7" type cars, springs seem to be 

350 to 400 pounds when using a Zetec. 

Also when the car is jacked up at the front there is only 1" of droop.

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

 

 

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stephenh

Have a look at my build thread on this subject, Rob. You certainly shouldn't need stiffer springs, I've gone softer than the factory standard, which is better for me, and Simon has gone softer still.

What you most likely need is longer dampers. Mine are about 20mm. longer than the factory standard, which gives me a much more usable suspension movement range. I can't remember which dampers you are using? If Protech, they will supply longer top bush elements, which just screw on in place of the originals, for £10.00 plus vat per corner. You can even order on line from their website. But first make sure you know all the dimensions you need from measuring on your existing ones, otherwise it gets very confusing!

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DamperMan

1" droop is not much!...     It would be nice to have about 2".  That way the wheels should stay in contact with the road most the time on UK roads,  and when your cornering hard the dampers don't become fully extended which instantly increases the role stiffness on that axle by a factor of 2.     Saying that is amazing how little suspension extension a car can get away with.   When I say droop I'm referring to wheel extension from a normal loaded position.   If your car goes down 1/2" from the height when you typically load it,  and 1" droop when empty you have 1.5".    I say typical load as it will always need a driver you on average may have 1/2 tank of fuels and so on. 

Wheel rate (the theoretical spring rate at the wheel) is largely dependent on the ride quality you want and the weight of the vehicle.    For instance the wheel rate on the front of a westfield iis about 125  Lbs /Inch.  Giving a natural un-damped bounce (frequency) of ~ 1.75Hz.    This is more sports than comfort.  

Then we have to take into account the motion ratio (leverage) which makes a massive difference.    If the wheel moves 1" and the damper 2/3 of an inch we would say the Motion ration is 0.6666

Fitted spring rate =   Wheel rate /   (M.R) squared    =     125 /  (0.66)^2 = 287Lbs/ inch  .       

Since the Motion ratio is squared relatively small differences in this makes a lot of difference to the effectiveness of any spring.     So very similar weighted vehicles have very different rated springs to achieve the same wheel rate.  

I'm afraid i have no data for the 11.  

 

 

 

 

 

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robhume

Hi Stephen, 

You are right about the damper travel but I'm up against it time wise, so planning to cut off one of the bump stops to gain a bit more travel.

The problem is that I don't seem to be able to gain any ride height as it is on the bump stops 

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stephenh

Can't you screw up the spring seats a bit more? I appreciate that it will mean you have even less droop, but needs must. That was my problem. Fitting different springs without lengthening the dampers isn't going to help, no matter what the spring rate, if to get an acceptable ride height you have to screw the spring seats up to the point that you no longer have any droop from the static state, then the spring rate is irrelevant, it is the damper length that is causing the problem.

You won't achieve a long suspension travel whatever you do on an XI, because of the restrictions of the chassis, but the extra 20mm. length on my dampers have resulted in what to me is an acceptable travel and ground clearance allowing for the nature of the car.

Good luck! 

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi, Rob,

You're mirroring my experiences.  I would my car up to give as much ride height as possible and then had very little droop and a car that would fly over the smallest road surface imperfection, then crash down to earth once more.  The solution has been longer shock absorbers and springs.

In your position and hoping that the hillclimb course has a reasonable surface, I would look to lower the car down a bit - put a bias towards the driver of half an inch side to side - and have the car raked towards the front.  That should restore a little droop but I don't think you'll achieve much more before the wishbones start clashing with the steering arms.  Your build thread suggests that your sump pan is much higher than my Midget one so you ought to be OK?.

Have you got anywhere that you can try the car out / shake it down for a mile or two before you set off?

Simon

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robhume

Thanks chaps for the various comments.

I took the springs and dampers off and removed one of the bump stops either side, then would up the spring platform, so now have  4" of clearance and set the dampers on 4 clicks.

Unfortunately I just won't have time to try the car before but I will be going overnight on Thursday, so will have all of Friday to do a fly test and hope the local plod is not

about. The surface is reasonably good, well compared to the UK, excellent, so should be ok. I have also set the toe at half a degree in and camber at 1.5 negative with the R888R tyres, so

see how that goes. Anyway all I am aiming for at this stage is to achieve 5 climbs without issues, if that happens, I will be pleased.

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