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robhume

Building my Eleven

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robhume

I decided to check the regulations again regarding the ROPS and although 45mm tube is ok for under 2000cc

I will change my ROPS size tube to 48.3mm x 2.6mm wall.

Section K 1.6.1. Series Production, Touring &Sports cars

a) .....up to 2000cc....complying with drawing K1 or K2

b)N/A in my case

c) Sports Cars over 2000cc Rollbar/Rollcage complying with K3 or K4 or K60 (I) (ii) & K31....

K60 is a main roll hoop, a diagonal and two backstays or if reguired two forward stays can be used.

So if I go over 2000cc, K60 is fine for that class

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John
On ‎12‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 10:09, robhume said:

I decided to check the regulations again regarding the ROPS and although 45mm tube is ok for under 2000cc

I will change my ROPS size tube to 48.3mm x 2.6mm wall.

Section K 1.6.1. Series Production, Touring &Sports cars

a) .....up to 2000cc....complying with drawing K1 or K2

b)N/A in my case

c) Sports Cars over 2000cc Rollbar/Rollcage complying with K3 or K4 or K60 (I) (ii) & K31....

K60 is a main roll hoop, a diagonal and two backstays or if reguired two forward stays can be used.

So if I go over 2000cc, K60 is fine for that class

Thats good news. Im not familiar with what K60 is but many of us know Jeff W and feel he should be running a full cage give that his engine is considerd over 2 litre

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robhume

The car went over to AB Performance on Friday last week and I took the engine over on Monday

but before I left, I did check with the MSA again, to absolutely make sure that what I was going to have

done was correct 100%.

I went over the relevant section in the blue book and pointed out I was going to use 48.3mm tube and was

told I only need 45mm tube as the Eleven is classed as a sports car. If it was classed as a sports racing car, then 48.3mm would be required.

The MSA also confirmed that I was correct in my understanding that a full cage was not required and that K60,(full width hoop, diagonal and back or forward stays

would comply, merely pointing out the requirements of K31, which specifies the clearances needed.

Jeff's roll structure, I believe uses a  larger than 48.3mm tube and is still classed as a sports car, so legal, as would my car be if I went over 2litres.

 

 

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robhume

The Zetec engine and Quaife gearbox are now properly mounted in the chassis, so next up will be the ROPS.

During the pre fitting stage I decided that I wanted nothing to be below the bottom chassis rail, well that was

pretty much achieved, save for a tiny bit of bell housing flange sticking down, I can live with that.

Prior to the engine and 'box being bolted in, the  round tube  that is welded at the lower part of the gearbox tunnel

tubes was remove and replaced with a straight square tube, so is not below the bottom chassis rails.

Achieving all this will necessitate altering the bonnet with a moulded hump/bulge, whatever you want to call it.

Hopefully it should look something like a Lotus 15? bonnet.

 

zetec nailed into chassis.jpg

zetec engine mounting 2.jpg

zetec engine mounting.jpg

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi, Rob,

To get everything above the chassis tubes is quite an achievement - well done and the fabricated mountings look excellent.  As a dyed in the wool "rally boy", I see so many different engines chassis mounted into tin-tops in this fashion.

Good luck with the bonnet bulge.  As well as 15s, you can google pictures of 15s and the Lotus-Buick (Reg No PMO 457) that I see competing each year at Chateau Impney.  There is a really good picture of the later car with the bonnet open that shows clearly how the V8 was shrouded.

Simon

 

 

 

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robhume

Hi Simon,

In fairness, it was A B Performance that fabricated the mountings and did the install, all I did was research what type of mountings may be suitable

and having previously trial fitted the engine, I knew it would be possible to make it fit. I had some Retro Ford rally type mountings which I took with me

so they, (A B), could either use or base the final version on.

The Formula Ford Zetec dry sump pan is quite deep, so I guess a fabricated one could be made shallower, but I'm still not sure if that would allow the engine to go in without

modifying the bonnet. Also the gearlever position is spot on, as if by magic.

Next up is the ROPS and if that goes as well, it should be great, but I have emphasised, that the clearance above the helmet to the imaginary line drawn from the top

of the roll bar to a forward structure, (not just a piece of bodywork), needs to be 50mm, this is important.

I have seen the Lotus Buick on YouTube and it looks a bit of a handful, in a good way.

I am hoping that the bonnet bulge is done sympathetically and not just as Prince Charles would say, a great carbuncle.

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MK11

Out of interest, why are you getting everything above the chassis rails?  On mine, even with only 50mm ground to sump clearance I rarely had any issues.  I did, however, weld a socking great steel plate to the Midget sump as a bit of added protection.  Had I gone for 75mm clearance I don't think I would have had any ground clearance issues at all, speed cushions just need to be approached one sided or duck between them where possible.

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robhume

Rather than getting things above the chassis rails, which most are anyway, I was actually more interested in not having anything or at least as little as possible below the bottom

of the chassis rails.

The reason; I would like to be able to panel under the chassis rails to have as flat a floor as possible and it also helps to keep the dirt and spray

out of the engine bay. It also means if I want to lower the ride height, I can without worrying about sumps etc, catching anything

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

I had set my car to the heights suggested in the Build Manual.  I welded three 3mm steel strips along the bottom of the sump, plus one across the front.  On my second trip out, when marshalling on a rally, I entered a venue via the main gate and, unsighted by a lorry in front of me (that I was following close as I didn't have a swipe card for the gate), I caught the keep for the gate.  Even though this was a slow impact, it did reshape my ironwork!  I have since jacked the drivers' side up half an inch and that has improved things greatly.

My car is / will be getting mainly road use, and use away from A and B roads at times so the extra clearance is almost vital to avoid damage on the increasingly ridged and rutted lanes of our island.  Speed bumps and cushions can be seen - and crept across if necessary.  I could take you to an innocuous looking lane north of Oxford which caught my Skoda VRS out and I hit the bottom hard at a good speed.  I blame the farmers' increasingly larger tractors and trailers for the recent widespread damage.

Rob's idea of panelling below the car replicates the original Lotus Eleven and will make his car very slippery through the air.  Remember that the original Elevens could do 130mph with an 83bhp Climax engine!  As he is looking to compete on smooth surfaces, I am sure that he will be able to lower the ride height of the car to heights suggested by MK11.  Who knows, the Westfield supplied shock absorber / spring combination may actually work at such ride heights.  Cooling a panelled in engine may might need more than a little thought, though!

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robhume

Good points Simon, well made.

My car will mainly be used for hill climbs and sprints and I'm not expecting to win anything but I would like to

try and compliment the lovely flowing lines of the bodywork by also allowing the air flowing under the car an

easy route.

Now cooling is something else, and as Simon says will need some careful thought, especially with the bottom being panelled.

I have asked that the moulded hump has a vent at the scuttle end of the bonnet to allow air to escape and hopefully may drag some heat out as well.

 

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi, Rob,

If you look at the Lotus-Buick you will see oval extract vents in the rear clamshell.  I have taken it that these help to draw air out at the back of the car.  I may put a couple of vents in my "diffuser" to see if that helps the issue of the rear edge of the bonnet flapping.  Now I am getting some miles on the car, I'm up to 3,500rpm (77mph) and I can see the two extra Dzus fixings I have on my bonnet having to do some work.

Simon

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robhume

Hi Simon,

I've had a look for the Lotus Buick and have found various photographs of it but nothing showing the rear vents, tell me where to look exactly please.

There are some large spaces where air can get trapped on the Westfield version, so something to look at.

Hopefully the ROPS should be done soon, along with a couple of extra mountings for a 6 point harness and a return spigot on the fuel tank.

Garage feels remarkably empty at the moment and I actually started playing with the ride on, I might even cut grass at the weekend, I must be mad!

.

 

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi, Rob,

Here you go. The first image is of a fibreglass rear clamshell that I believe could have been moulded from the Dizzi Addicott Lotus Buick.  It comes from an advert for a car for sale in bits in the USA.  I actually think that the chassis in the picture is more Westfield than Lotus!  The link is:  http://bringatrailer.com/2017/03/14/eleven-chassis-fifteen-body-lotus-mish-mash-kit/

00a0a_6CK6WsPmGe3_600x450-1.jpg.9e96d1a6a0f2c9da60e6b165704c519b.jpg

The shape of the holes can clearly be seen on the clamshell.

The following images are of the car itself at UK hillclimb events.

lotus-11-buick-at-start-line-adrian-beese.jpg.a59e4f92955b4db3725b7fc1952ce24c.jpg

28187718863_9dd3790c1a_b.thumb.jpg.aa7471ca210854aa552287f12a86ec7b.jpg

social-media-6x4-class-13-winner-1.jpg

I hope these are of use.

I, too, am staring grass cutting in the eyes this weekend.  I hope to be able to visit a local company to sort out the tubing for my roll hoop on Saturday morning, then I have the rest of Saturday and most of Sunday to hack down the grass that hasn't been cut since August - in my defence I had the Eleven IVA and then getting it on the road as a priority last Autumn.

Following are images of my wood mock-up hoop (from which I prepared sketches for the tube benders).  It is based on the hoop that Chris Smith had approved by the RAC in 1983.

IMG_1636.thumb.JPG.0d7e3b4a61dd28c01c595674bf3322a9.JPG

IMG_1637.thumb.JPG.4a8b7c2e72622e87eb022778f3792244.JPG

IMG_1639.thumb.JPG.aabc57cbc9dfdb71f6a35d93d40e9b03.JPG

Simon

 

 

 

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robhume

Simon, Thanks for the pics and link.

Your mock-up roll bar looks good and more in keeping with the style of the car.

I wonder, if as well as having the roll bar approved, Chris Smith also had it certified?

I'm still waiting for the ROPS to be done/installed, which is frustrating, having got off to a good start with the engine mountings.

I am now wondering how long it's going to take to get the mods to the bonnet done and thinking, maybe I should just do it myself.

Having moulded Davrian bodyshells back in the seventies, it would not be a problem, just time.

What is it they say about patience.

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi, Rob,

Yes, that roll bar was certificated but when the rules for Roadgoing Specialist Sports Cars changed to "must comply with" the current ROPS rules, to claim an old approval went out of the window.  Being as deeply into organising motor sport as I am, and seeing the effort that goes into keeping the risks insured, I fully understand the reasons for the rule changes and am not bitter!

If you have fibreglass experience, why not go for the bonnet mod.  If you're able to cut out a hole to clear the new engine and know the height it protrudes, you ought to be able to figure something out.  I don't know if there's anything generic to use as a starting point.

Simon

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