Building my Eleven

[Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO 249]

Hi, Mark,

I'll go with that - that takes away one imagined problem!

Many Thanks

Simon

[robhume 164]

Simon/Mark, thanks for the input.

I have already made my cardboard ROPS template, so guess what I shall be doing today.

However I am not quite clear where I stand regarding the tube diam and I guess that depends on how the MSA

would classify the eleven, Westfield derivative or sports racer. I tend to agree with mark that the Westfield eleven

was never intended as a sports racing car and primarily intended to be used as a road car.

I do need to satisfy myself that the other criteria can be met though, so will work through that and contact the MSA tomorrow.

[Mark (smokey mow) 1,195]

1 hour ago, robhume said:

Simon/Mark, thanks for the input.

I have already made my cardboard ROPS template, so guess what I shall be doing today.

However I am not quite clear where I stand regarding the tube diam and I guess that depends on how the MSA

would classify the eleven, Westfield derivative or sports racer. I tend to agree with mark that the Westfield eleven

was never intended as a sports racing car and primarily intended to be used as a road car.

I do need to satisfy myself that the other criteria can be met though, so will work through that and contact the MSA tomorrow.

Happy to offer advice

I also totally agree that the only way to be 100% sure of the requirements is to talk to the MSA for clarification.

[robhume 164]

This is my very crude card template of where the roll bar would have to be to meet the requirements

of drawing 31, section K in the blue book.

The horizontal blue line is up 600mm min from seat squab.

The vertical blue line is 200mm from the inside of the roll bar to the centre line of the seat.

What it tells me is either I have to have the vertical tube bent inwards

or

I form a structure to take a base plate onto which can be bolted the foot plate on the vertical roll bar tube.

The distance from the centre of the roll bar to back of the helmet is not a problem.

 

[Mark (smokey mow) 1,195]

Rob, I personally would be bending the tube inwards rather than adding additional structure to the chassis as a scruitineer may consider any addional strucure to be part of the roll bar.  The Caged roll bars and  likewise for the ones they make for Playskool bend inwards at the mounting feet and a quick skim read of the blue book seems to confirm that a single bend in the vertial part of the main hoop is acceptable.

 

[Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO 249]

Hi, Rob,

That's how I figured it would be.  I would ask Michael or John at the MSA regarding possible solutions, based on their experience and precedent.  That Caged bar in Mark's photograph could well be the answer - even if it needed a little cantilever help from a welded base plate and the footplate of the roll bar.

Simon 

[robhume 164]

That would be my preferred option Mark  and glad you came to the same conclusion Simon.

So a phone call tomorrow.

[robhume 164]

I contacted the MSA and 45mm x 2.5mm cds is ok.

Also, bending the tube inwards as per the example in Mark's post.

However I would prefer to have forward stays as I don't want to cut into the rear clam more than necessary.

Perhaps Mark you could give me a contact number or email for the person you used to make your roll bar please.

[Mark (smokey mow) 1,195]

That's good news

It's Martin at MJS fabrication near Maldon who has made my roll bars, there's a couple of pictures on their website of my Westfield and also the bar he made last month for the JW4. He should be able to work either from a drawing or with the car. Turnaround for me was about 2weeks.

www.mjsfabrication.co.uk

 

 

[robhume 164]

Good shout Mark, been in touch and drawing sent off.

[robhume 164]

The car  went off to A B Performance to have a ROPS made and fitted.

I also noticed that the rear clam hinge mechanism, where the steel plates are bonded to the GRP,

one side is starting to delaminate and the whole area is suffering quite a bit of flex, so this will

have to have a bit of a rethink. probably be a good idea to look at the front clam as well.

 

[John 480]

What ROPS are you having and will it be road going? I may be wrong but I seem to recall that it will be 1.8/2.0 lire turbo? if non-roadgoing, pretty sure that over 2 litre requires full cage for speed events and the 1.4 multiplier for forced induction will make it over 2 litre. I would check carefully

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary 5,715]

27 minutes ago, John said:

What ROPS are you having and will it be road going? I may be wrong but I seem to recall that it will be 1.8/2.0 lire turbo? if non-roadgoing, pretty sure that over 2 litre requires full cage for speed events and the 1.4 multiplier for forced induction will make it over 2 litre. I would check carefully

I thought it was an ex race 1.8 Zetec, hadn't realised it was a turbo conversion too?

[robhume 164]

First off it is a 1.8 ex FF zetec, Mountune with mods.

Second; turbo conversion is on hold for the moment, not enough time to do a proper build and still have an engine.

Third; the roll structure was cleared with MSA Technical dept, 45mm diameter x 2.5mm wall cds tube of suitable technical spec

all as per the MSA requirements . Full width hoop, single diagonal and two forward stays. all tubes to be 45mm diam

and that includes the diagonal and the forward stays.

So as far I am concerned it is being built to the requirements of the MSA.

 

[robhume 164]

Don't quite get the full cage bit, Jeff Wiltshire runs a Phoenix with a supercharged 2lt zetec engine

and has a full hoop, diagonal and two backstays and the Phoenix is a kit car also, so what's different about the Westfield

and is the multiplier 1.4 or 1.7?