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robhume

Which class

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robhume

I'm scratching my heat trying to work out which class the eleven would be in for sprints/hillclimbs  if using;

 

Midget engine, 1380cc

 

Crossflow, either 1300cc or 1700cc

 

or if I develop the climax pump engine.

 

I seem to be getting conflicting answers

 

Any help, suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

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Mark (smokey mow)

If Westfield made 20 XI's in a year then Road going specialist production.

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robhume

Thanks Mark, I have asked Westfield this but I would doubt if they have done that number of elevens in a year

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Mark (smokey mow)

Thanks Mark, I have asked Westfield this but I would doubt if they have done that number of elevens in a year

The current management of Westfield may or may not be able to advise as I've been told in the past they they don't hold any records prior to 1990. You could try Chris Smith directly as he has occasionally posted on the forum.

The Robinson Bouckley Book of the history of Westfield suggests though that they produced 138 cars between 1982-86 so an average of 35 a year.

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robhume

Westfield have confirmed that they have indeed produced in excess of 20 elevens in a year, so all good.

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Mark (smokey mow)

That's good news. Now all you need is a ROPS that complies :oops:

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stephenh

That's good news. Now all you need is a ROPS that complies :oops:

That'll will be tricky, but if you are looking at road going classes, then for now you may be ok with a hoop rather than a full cage? But how long for?

If you just want a hoop welded into the chassis, then might be worth contacting Sunbeam Lotus.

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robhume

I think I will be erring on the side of caution and go for the full width hoop with removable forward stays just in case the MSA decides to change things in the future. I will also need to ask them,(MSA) if they require the legs of the rops to go to the bottom chassis tubes with suitable plating before I start adding anything.

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi,

      I would be fairly confident that an A Series powered Eleven would be acceptable as a Roadgoing Specialist Production car in Sprints and Hillclimb.  I had discussed this informally with the MSA when I set out on my purchase two and a half years ago.  At that time, ROPS were recommended for these cars, and as I have a design for a hoop that fits under the clamshell, all looked good.

 

When the change in ROPS was announced (my reading of the requirement is for a braced, full-width bar), I declared that "I was not going to make my Eleven look like a scaffolders' lorry" so am now looking to the occasional trackday or even the non-MSA Sprint series if they will have me.  I applaud your plan to look to create an MSA compliant ROPS.  I would suggest that you speak with John Ryan (the Technical Executive) at the MSA and he will direct you as appropriate.  Regarding forward facing bars, if you have to run one down each side, having now driven my car, I would have thought that this could be rather restrictive within the cockpit so you may be looking to brace rearwards - and a flat clamshell would be far more suitable to receive such an instalation.

 

I would have thought a Ford or Climax powered Eleven  would be pushed towards the "catch all" category of Sports Libre and will be likely to be subject to more onerous driver licencing, technical and safety requirements.  This is really a question for the Speed Series guys.  I'm actually a Sprint Clerk of the Course but Technical Queries (including car classes) are dealt with by the Scrutineers and a Protest of any car would be referred to the MSA Technical Panel (as event Officials / Stewards are not regarded as expert enough to adjudicate on such matters in many branches of motor sport).

 

Simon

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Mark (smokey mow)

The MSA define a Specialist Production Car as:
 

A car of which at least 20 identical examples are manufactured within a twelve consecutive month period and fitted with a series production car engine.

 

A series production car is likewise defined as:

 

A car of which at least 1000 identical examples have or are benig manufactured within a twelve consecutive month period

 

And hence a Series Production Engine

 

an engine sourced from a series production car. The origin of the cylinder head and cylinder block must always be established.


So by definition if 20 XI’s have been built in a 12 month period and you fit an engine from a series production car of which at least 1000 examples (head and block) were produced then you’ll be eligible for Road Going Specialist Production. Else as Simon has correctly stated above it’ll be Sports Libre.

In Specialist Production you’ll need a ROPS to K1.6.1 and to diagrams K1 or K2. As you might of seen in that latest MSA bulletin you should be able to fit forward facing stays from next year.

 

I'd echo Simon's words about talking to the MSA.  I've been having a lot of discussion with them over the last few months regarding the ROPS on the JW4 and have just started the process for National Homologation of the design.  Michael Duncan has in particular been very helpful to date. 

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XTR2Turbo

Doesn't the engine need to match original fitment type or it will be sports libre?

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robhume

For an old grumpy like me, this is all keeping my little grey cells working and if you add in selling and buying houses into the mix, it does create quite a challenge.

I think I am heading towards Modified/Specialist Production up to 1400cc, excluding bike power.

The class has the same minimum of 20 chassis produced in a year requirement but does leave the head free, as I understand.

I had been talking to Michael Duncan on several occasions regarding the ROPs on my Van Diemen, so I understand what is required.

However, before I started having tube bent, I would be sending a drawing for MSA comments.

I had thought about the restricted space to get out of an upturned car, hence the removable forward tubes

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