A Guide to Fighting Fires in Kitcars

[Terryathome]

Are we all now paranoid that our cars are instantaneously going to ignite and burn to the ground?

 

1m 45 secs it gets interesting

 

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

Rob - excellent article and a good candidate for the next copy of the magazine?

 

I have a question about AFFF extinguishers - what's your view on these?

 

I have a 2ltr AFFF (Alloy body) mounted on the drivers side on the floor (about the only space I could find tbh) - it was left over from my racing car and is still "in the green" but I can get it checked and refilled locally. However, I've never had to use one (and hope not to) - are they really any better than DP and are the principals of fighting a fire the same (and roughly how long would you have with 2ltrs of AFFF?)

 

You can pick up a decent AFFF car extinguisher (1.5 to 2ltr) from about £60-£80 so they're not that expensive these days.

 

I have twin Weber DCOE's and they have a habit of spitting back at certain revs which always worries me but as the K&N filters stick out through the bonnet, I always give them a quick glance to make sure there's no "follow through" from the spitting 

 

Still extremely wary (terrified if car related) of flames though and especially petrol ever since I threw a jug of petrol onto a bonfire when I was a kid    - fortunately only singed eyebrows but it absolutely scared the pants off me - I can still see the flame leaping back up from the bonfire and into the jug ............... lesson well learnt though and now huge respect for any type of fire and those that fight them.

 

Colin

 

p.s - is the Great Wall of China still there - had many a nice meal there when I worked up in Edinburgh (a while ago now)

Thanks! I think I will submit something for the magazine .. I will give the guide a polish and get it submitted, cheers!

 

The advantages of DP over foam is that the DP cloud can access parts of the engine bay a lot easier even with the bonnet on. Foam is only effective if applying directly onto the burning surface. It has very good cooling properties due to its wetting nature. As far as in-car extinguishers are concerned, a DP is considered the most effective choice. I'd personally pop the foam extinguisher that you have into the garage for when you're working on the car

 

PS - Your personal experience as a kid would've been quite dramatic as the action of throwing the petrol would have increased the surface area of the petrol and allowed for a much more rapid conflagration ie a massive whoosh and flash as it trimmed your eyebrows! The Great Wall has closed. I think it didn't get the foot fall to keep such a large restaurant going.

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

I fitted a plumbed in one 2 years ago

It sprays on the carbs and my balls

Its primary idea is to buy me time to get me out

Do you have any experience as to the effectiveness of theses systems putting out a fire

Or would an extra bottle be a good addition

My carbs sometimes spray a bit so I fitted the system

Dave is correct that plumbed in systems are designed as life safety systems - I think there's a plumbed in supplier actually called lifeline! They are small systems purely to provide those extra seconds for drivers to escape the vehicle hence their small capacities, plus they are popular because they also keep the weight down. This is not to say that a plumbed in system won't put a fire out as there's a certain amount of luck and chance involved as I mentioned earlier. Actuated early enough, and it might just put the fire out! I'd always recommend carrying an additional 1kg DP if you've a plumbed in system.

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

1m 45 secs it gets interesting

 

Haha, handbrake failure - that's why we always chock the wheels when dealing cars on inclines! 

[Northwarks]

Great read, I've got a plumbed in setup with an electronic trigger, I test it every time i use the Westy.

 

I had a Ford Fiesta back in the 1980s, the days when there was no radio or cassette player as standard and it was all aftermarket. I was driving down a local road and thought I'd passed a bonfire .. it was the wiring for the radio I'd fitted burning under the dash - to this day I never forget the smell of burning wiring, never had an extinguisher back then (who did   ) ended up yanking out the burning wiring with a stick. Spent the next 2 years with a melted/sagging dash, have never used 'chocolate blocks' or those blue joining things ever since - That Christmas my dad got me a car extinguisher  ..... 

[dhutch]

Foam and water are inefficient unless you've got an 18,000 litre tank to hand ie a fire engine! CO2 are good but large quantities are needed and they don't possess good cooling attributes therefore, a fire may easily re-ignite. Plus, they are stored at greater pressures hence the much heavier container! This leaves dry powder (DP) which on the whole are very effective IF used correctly! Note, from a 1kg DP extinguisher, you can expect around 7-10 seconds of use at an effective range of around 1.5 to 2m and so control and accuracy are of the utmost importance as you can imagine!

The advantages of DP over foam is that the DP cloud can access parts of the engine bay a lot easier even with the bonnet on. Foam is only effective if applying directly onto the burning surface. It has very good cooling properties due to its wetting nature. As far as in-car extinguishers are concerned, a DP is considered the most effective choice. I'd personally pop the foam extinguisher that you have into the garage for when you're working on the car

Interesting the you favour DP of Foam, although the reasons make sense.

I have a 2l foam one in the car at the moment, rated at 8a 55b, very comparable size and rating wise to a 2kg DP but has nearly twice the discharge time. But I guess that's only of use if you can get it to the fire.

Daniel

[dhutch]

Isn't it weird how a subject comes up in one conversation, then you hear it mentioned again and again over the course of a few days!

This months MSA mag has J Plato with a 9kg DP in his arms! Arrived yesterday.

Daniel

[BillyPee]

Thanks for this Rob, very informative.

 

I have had first hand experience of a tackling a kit car on fire as we lost our first Westfield to a carburettor fire. Short video here: http://www.flickr.co...N00/7278069648/

 

From my experience there are two things I would add:

 

1. Check the extinguisher is in date

 

I tackled the fire with the small fire extinguisher that was attached to the rear bulkhead. The fire was small at the time and I tried to put it out through the hole in the bonnet where the filters stick out (didn't fancy taking the bonnet off for the reasons discussed above). However, the fire extinguisher was out of date (by a month) and, although it was full of powder, there was no propellent in it so it spluttered a bit but did not discharge properly. Had it been in working order, I think I would have had a very good chance of putting the fire out. An important piece of advice that I would add would be to check the date and replace if it is out of date. If its not, the put a reminder to order a new one in your phone.

 

2. Ensure a second (bigger) extinguisher is within easy reach in the garage

Also, I was very fortunate that the Westy had quite an oil leak so the car was at the bottom of the drive (on the pavement) when this happened (I stopped it there so it wouldn't mess the drive up while opening the garage). Had it been on the drive then the garage and/or house would have gone up too. I now have a bigger extinguisher mounted on the wall in the garage as backup. Again, I'd advise everyone to have a separate larger fire extinguisher that is within easy reach of the front of the garage so that if the fire does occur when you get back from a blat, you have the equipment to have a fighting chance to get the fire out.

 

Kind regards,

Bill

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

The BS ratings are based on open 'crib fire' tests. The ratings are decent enough indicators but consideration must be given to its application. As you mention, Daniel, it's only good if you can actually reach the fire. The ratings aren't specific to a particular application hence why you'll not find a 1L foam plumbed system. I'm not favouring DP over foam per se, but for your everyday kitcar owner, I'd always say a 1kg DP is the preference over installing a 2L plumbed foam system. A 2L plumbed system with strategically placed spray nozzles will be very effective, for sure!

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

Bill, that's very good advice indeed. Sorry to hear about your fire and thanks for sharing your experience! When was your fire?

I'm carrying 1 x 1kg DP on the bulkhead between my seats but plan to fit a second one along the front of the passenger seat

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

This thread reminds me, I think my garage fire extinguisher must be in need of a refil and re-pressurise by now.

Daft question perhaps, but how does one go about getting the odd individual extinguisher refilled etc. - I remember looking round years ago, (pre internet search), phoning a few companies from the yellow pages, it didn't seem like any were interested in doing single bottles, even when they were a standard 6 litre industrial/commercial type.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

My view on carrying extinguishers has changed over the last few years.

And it's not that I particularly expect to catch fire anytime soon, obviously I really rather hope I don't, and will continue trying to do everything I can to avoid it. No, it's the fact that when I'm in the Westfield, there is a very high chance I'll be travelling as part of a group, at least 2/3 of the time. The group might be anything from three or four to a couple of dozen kits, and might include everything from freshly finished, ink barely dry on the MAC certificate cars to early ninieties, or even eighties cars. I figure the chances are going up all the time that one of these groups might have trouble at some point. The more the rest of us can be equipped, the better the chance of a safe and not to expensive ending...

And yes, it was Trev's incident filled trip to the Alps that got me thinking again!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

How funny, a quick Google sort of looks like it's cheaper just to replace a 6 litre size, (DP), once it's got to the point of needing refilling and re pressurising. That just seems wrong some how!

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

In my early training days, we'd refill our own but I was trained to BAFE (British Approvals for Fire Equipment) standards. Nowadays, even we get a firm in to refill our training ones. There'll not be many firms interested in doing the odd one here and there .. it's all contract work for them, but shop around nevertheless. I personally wouldn't refill one for my own use or for another member as I'd never guarantee it'd operate to the exacting standards .. fine for training, not real life!

A wee tip for all your expired extinguishers - if you've never operated one before (or Ebenezer if you have), take yourself to an open area and set it off. This'll give you a good idea of how they work, and just how messy they can be too!

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

How funny, a quick Google sort of looks like it's cheaper just to replace a 6 litre size, (DP), once it's got to the point of needing refilling and re pressurising. That just seems wrong some how!

Yup, we live in a throw away society now, my friend! As I've suggested, you could have a play with your expired one then take the empty back like we used to do with our juice [English friends read, pop] bottles!