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Mega S2000 interwarmer and ECU Temp logging- do I need a splitter plate?


Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO

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Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO

Given I've not got an imaginative bone in my body and I like all things shiny, the next mod I'm shamelessly planning to copy is DaveMK1's air inlet splitter plate to feed the air filter with ambient air rather than air that has been mostly heated by the radiator seen here:

 

22410835435_9874783411_c_zpsfayfxcwk.jpg

 

It's also been copied and improved with gold foil by CraigHew:

 

Craig%20air%20splitter%20plate_zpsk3hrcb

 

Today I've had the great pleasure of an early morning two car sortie round mid Wales courtesy of the excellent guide that CraigHew is. Before I left Craig's to head home, I hooked up my laptop to my unlocked Omex 600 Ecu and set it up to log air inlet temp, throttle position and engine RPM. 

 

Here's the quick log recorded with the car stationary.

 

short%20temp%20log%20on%20Craigs%20drive

 

As you can see the inlet air temp dropped slightly on throttle opening as you'd expect.

 

I then logged the hour run home to capture this:

 

full%20hour%20log%20of%20inlet%20temp_zp

 

Zooming in you can see:

inlet%20temp%20log%20zoomed%20in_zps3zqh

 

Disappointingly given today's nice weather with an ambient air temp of circa 18 degrees C, my engine is been fed air at circa 42 degrees C most of the time. 

 

Is this due to the standard Honda intake manifold and throttle body being heated by coolant (Yes, I know you told me to disconnect them permanently Lloydox  :cry: when I was having coolant tank issues). Is it heat bleeding from the cylinder head or is it because most of the inlet air has been heated by the radiator?

 

I'd really appreciate Andy (Sycho), Dave (Gadgetman) or Stu (FinkAngel) who have also got unlocked Omex Ecu's to record a similar log to see if it's the water heating that's to blame. CraigHew's Ecu isn't unlocked so we can't log his and I don't think DaveMK1's is unlocked either.

 

I'm going ahead with the splitter plate mod and ordering the K&N air filter and some pipes. No engine will thank you for warm air!

 

Comments please?

 

 

 

 

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  • Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO

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Please to confirm despite today's chilly weather. My car's not missed a beat for 132 miles on a great blat with the Peak District mob. I'm not going to be disconnecting my heated manifold, throttle bo

I've spoken with Omex and they feel it useful to see a log of it doing what it did(couldn't disagree!) So I'll take my laptop on my next cold run and see if I can reproduce and record it. An interesti

The results are in. I ran two logs from my ECU, one with the two ducting pipes I added open, and one with them closed. They definitely work, as shown in the top graph below:     The top line is w

CraigHew

Ian,

 

As I mentioned elsewhere (omex ITB thread) Hondata reakon that the most heat transfered to the ITBs occurs when the throttle is closed for a while (ie slowing down, or even worse a long hill decent) or when moving slowly on minimal throttle (ie through slow town traffic).

 

Conversely, when the throttle is open (and I assume more cool air is being drawn through the system) temperatures are at their lowest.

 

 

 

 

https://www.hondata.com/heatshield-s2000

 

(see details tab)

 

They also suggest that the (standard) Honda intake manifold is heated in up to 5 places.

 

From the head, the interior heating takeoff hose, the cold idle valve, the idle control valve and the throttle body heater.

 

 

You could add a phenolic spacer to your list of temperature reduction options as well as blocking off the coolant?

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I think one needs to differentiate the difference between the temp of the air as it enters the filter (which you have some influence on with filter location) and the temp of the air within the Honda intake manifold where the sensor is.

 

With the plate and filter set up I was getting ambient air temp where it enters the filter. I have no idea what the temp of the air in the manifold is but it's no doubt much higher due to the heat transfer from the head and the coolant running through it. All one needs to do is take the temperature of the manifold itself and you'll see why air in there is warm.

 

I assume, but have never documented, that by stating with cool air that one ends up with air that is less hot within the manifold and this should reap benefits. I think you have the opportunity to really test how effective the plate and filter set up is........you've logged intake air temps with the stock set up and now you can change it and see how much it might change with the plate and filter. 

 

it will be interesting to see what you get.

 

dave

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Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO

Ian,

 

As I mentioned elsewhere (omex ITB thread) Hondata reakon that the most heat transfered to the ITBs occurs when the throttle is closed for a while (ie slowing down, or even worse a long hill decent) or when moving slowly on minimal throttle (ie through slow town traffic).

 

Conversely, when the throttle is open (and I assume more cool air is being drawn through the system) temperatures are at their lowest.

 

 

 

 

https://www.hondata.com/heatshield-s2000

 

(see details tab)

 

They also suggest that the (standard) Honda intake manifold is heated in up to 5 places.

 

From the head, the interior heating takeoff hose, the cold idle valve, the idle control valve and the throttle body heater.

 

 

You could add a phenolic spacer to your list of temperature reduction options as well as blocking off the coolant?

 

I was hoping to see more of a marked difference between being sat in traffic, moving slowly and when I was making good progress.

 

The spacers a good call.

 

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Stu Faulkner

A few weeks ago when we had the heat wave my car felt under powered to the point that I checked it over when I got home.

By comparison on the Saturday night of Silverstone I had to get some fuel at about 9:00 at night and it really went well on the cool night air.

There certainly is something to be said about intake temperature.

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Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO

A few minutes spent using up left over bits in the garage has resulting in the Mk1, splitter plate.

 

made from 1mm carbon sheet with silver reflective heat foil on the rear (Can't afford Gold CraigHew).

 

IMG_3643_zpsjxzywct8.jpg

 

IMG_3644_zpsj7kk72dv.jpg

 

Leading edge held to top of radiator with Velcro and then the join covered in more heat reflective tape. It will probably lift at 30mph and make a farting sound!

 

Held in place by cable ties.

 

IMG_3647_zpsn6j3vrel.jpg

 

IMG_3648_zpsglonureg.jpg

 

IMG_3646_zpsc3wlvx9f.jpg

 

IMG_3645_zpswhnbfyfa.jpg

 

current air filter just squeezes in whilst I await delivery of a smaller K&N cone filter (RC-5106) and a 90 degree 76mm OD elbow and a silicon hose joiner.

 

Now off to find a traffic jam and heat up the inlet manifold for another test.................I may be disappointed...................

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Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO

I 'think' it's an improvement. Air temp is circa 17 degrees C and a 20 min run from cold has resulted in this:

 

improved_zpsnhwwkuyo.jpg

 

When I zoom in to when I got moving after traffic, I can see the air temps come down!

 

improved%20zoom_zpsntfqhtzk.jpg

 

or is it kings new clothes syndrome?

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CraigHew

Whilst I realise the data analysis is in it's infancy, what you're saying is

 

without "splitter"  your intake temp was 24 degrees C above ambient  (18   v  42)

 

with Mk1 splitter your intake temp was 13 degrees C above ambient   (17   v   30)  Assuming the splitter test average was 30 ?

 

 

thats a 12 degree drop, or in Hondata estimates a  2-3 bhp increase.

 

Just from drawing colder air.

 

It's looking promising.

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Peter (Monty)

Unlocking the Omex is worthwhile then! Looks like an improvement on delta to ambient temp, so not a bad result for an afternoon's work (and zero cost).

Has anyone ever tried ducting air down from the hood scoop?

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CraigHew

Been discussed before Monty, the scoop is too far back.

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CraigHew

Kimptos is about to experiment with ducting from below tho, so watch this space....

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Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary

Also keep in mind that the temperature being measured isn't necessarily the "real" temperature of the intake air at all times.

Honda mounted it in what anyone who's fiddled about with ITBs over the years will tell you is a notoriously bad position, as it gets massively affected by heat soak from the inlet manifold. To make matters worse, as we know, the S2000 inlet manifold for a number of reasons, seems to run particularly hot. The sensors used for air temp on the whole tend not to be overly quick reacting to changes. Be interesting to know how responsive the Honda's sender is.

Later versions of the S2000 engine relocated the air temp sender to the pre-throttle body side of the inlet pipe work to avoid some of the heat soak inaccuracies.

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Stu Faulkner

It does make you think that we should have had the trumpets sticking out the side of the bonnet like everyone else wit TB's. :)

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Andy (Sycho)

Ian, i can't help with the data as my ecu hasn't been unlocked as yet!

But as said I think the cooler air does help as I always find it goes better late at night on my way home from blats etc, I was going to fit a naca duct with an inline filter before fitting thottle bodies.

Still contemplating fitting a naca duct though.

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Stu Faulkner

Just to add my ECU hasn't been unlocked either.

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