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BillyPee

Choosing Between PVR22 and PVR25 Batteries

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BillyPee

I am thinking of buying the PVR22 (Clubsport) Race Battery from Powervamp via eBay.

 

From what I can tell, reading previous forum posts and the description on eBay, this will be suitable for starting the Ford 1.7 Kent Crossflow (Xflow) in my SEiW. However, Powervamp have a more expensive battery, the PVR25 (Odyssey PC680) Race Battery, which also seems to be suitable too.

 

I am not knowledgable about batteries, so I looked at the specs and they look pretty similar but with the cheaper PVR22 having better spec, smaller dimensions and being lighter too!

PVR22

  • Amp 20Ah
  • Dimensions 181 x 76 x 166 mm
  • CCA 300A
  • Peak 700A
  • Weight 6.5kg

PVR25

  • Amp 18Ah
  • Dimensions 185 x 79 x 170 mm
  • CCA 265A
  • Peak 680A
  • Weight 7.0kg

What would be the advantage of buying the PVR25 over the PVR22? The engine is not highly tuned (about 110 bhp) and is road use only.

 

I have read previous threads on the subject but none of them seem to get to the bottom of the issue. I don't want to pay more for something I don't understand but, equally, I don't want to buy the PVR22 and then realise I should have bought the PVR25 in the first place, as that would be a false economy.

Also, with the PVR22/25 batteries, do I need to treat them differently than the Varta standard lead acid battery its replacing. Specifically, I am think about the need to put the battery on charge whenever park it up? Normally the car is SORNed all winter and then used infrequently between April and September, so would I need to leave it plugged in with the supplied charger (I'd buy the bundle with the charger and bracket with the battery)? There is power in the garage, it just seems like a bit of a faff and a trip hazard.

Finally, the existing battery cables are not in great condition and the FIA Kill Switch is inconveniently located, so I am thinking of replacing them and relocating at the same time. There are 25mm2 and 35mm2 cables on offer from Powervamp; I suspect that the 25mm2 cables are fine but how do I work out which is the correct size for my application? I know I could measure the existing ones but it is no guarantee that they were right in the first place.

Thanks in advance,
Bill

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BCF

I have the pvr22 on my vauxhall c20xe engine, works perfectly and has never lost cranking power. I charged and conditioned it before fitting but have never needed to and therefore haven't bothered to since (was fitted in Feb this year), I don't do many miles, some road use and mainly sprints and Hillclimbs, and it can be left for months before restarting without an issue. I do have a kill switch which is always disengaged, I think this will help minimise/eliminate drain.

However it was not manly enough for my old crossflow, strangely. Wouldn't start it at all, hot or cold, just didn't have the cranking power for it - might have been the Wosp hi-torque starter motor but I'm not sure. My crossflow did take a fair bit of cranking to get it going though, needed the old two throttle pumps, turn key for 10 secs, another two pumps trick! The XE just turns over first turn of the key, hot or cold.

Can't help on wire sizes but I'm sure someone else can!

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Kit Car Electronics

Hi Bill, I've had the PVR22 on a 2.0 zetec for a couple of years with no battery problems (high compression engine, reduction geared starter). Occasionally I charge with a CTEK conditioning charger - this came with a connector that is permanently wired in and has a red/orange/green flashing light to warn if battery loses voltage - recommended. Only happens if I've been playing with electrics in the garage though.

 

25mm will be fine for the cables.

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geoffd

I have a battery that looks very similar to the PVR22.  It's OK in the summer, but it really struggles to start my crossflow as soon as the weather turns colder.  I always disconnect it when I leave the car in its garage.  My crossflow is not highly tuned as far as I know.  I'm thinking about the Odyssey 680 as a new battery.

 

Geoff

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Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary

I suspect the common thread with the crossflows possibly isn't that they're running high compression, though it can be an issue in highly tuned versions, but is more likely to be the ignition advance associated with a clockwork distributor - your're often literally fighting the advance trying to almost slow the crank as it turns over.

With engine management, you normally have a specific cranking advance which is way easier on the battery and starter. Hence no issues with the XE's mentioned above, despite high compression.

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BillyPee

Thanks very much for your detailed and prompt responses guys. It is interesting to hear that the PVR22 seems to be man enough for modern engines but a couple of you report problems with it and the Ford Kent Crossflow (Xflow).

 

The engine does/did take a bit of cranking and fuel pumping to get going. I say did because I have recently fitted an OMEX 200 ECU and removed the distributor. In the admittedly few times that I have started the engine since fitting it, it certainly feels much more keen to fire that it used to when on the dizzy. However, in truth, it is too early to tell for certain. I'm not running high compression and the starter motor is stock (I haven't checked but I haven't upgraded it and there are no markings on it to suggest that its anything special).

 

On the morning I took the Westy for it's MOT it was 2℃ and the existing Varta lead acid battery was unable to start the car first/second time and then wasn't able to crank the engine over fast enough on subsequent attempts. I am given to understand that this capability is referred to as CCA (Cold Cranking Amps). A booster got it going. The battery voltage is good and it is definitely charging from the alternator. The battery came with the car when we bought it 5 years ago but there is no essential reason for replacement.

 

The motivation for replacement with a PVRnn is because it is smaller and can be mounted flat (or moved in front of the engine) as I would like scuttle space to mount the oil catch tank higher up. Also, it seems like a good deal with it bundled with a bracket and charger. The current battery bracket is very poor and not secure and I was hoping that putting the battery on charge when it is not used will mean that it will start every time. To be honest, it is not the biggest problem if it doesn't start when I get it out of the garage, its if it doesn't start when warm (when I leave a petrol station or monthly meet).

 

In summary, I'm taking from your replies that both the PVR22 or PVR25 may be unsuitable/marginal even on a mildly tuned Ford Kent Crossflow (Xflow) that is still on a dizzy but that it may be suitable if using the same engine on an ECU. I guess I will never know if I don't try. I can ask Powervamp but they will probably claim either is fine but point me towards the PVR25. Before I commit, can anyone recommend an alternative battery that might be more suitable but at around the price point of the PVR22 and PVR25 including bracket and charger?

 

Thanks once again everyone for your help,

Bill

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Rhett - Joint Black Country AO

I purchased one of these in the spring as an alternative to the pc680 51913 BMW Enduroline Advanced Motorcycle Battery 12V 20Ah (12V20P) which is a slightly higher spec and has been fine on my Zetec. I'd left the car over the winter and the battery was flat and damaged when I tried to start in the spring. I also purchased from Amazon a CTEK MXS 5.0 Battery Charger and CTEK CTE-56629 Comfort Indicator with 6mm Eyelets. This charger has a AGM mode and the comfort indicator is visible through the bonnet vents so I can see when it stops flashing green and put it on charge. I have noticed that the charger has been included in the Amazon black Friday deals, and may, I guess, possibly appear again this week as a Cyber Monday deal. 

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BillyPee

Hi Rhett, thanks for this information. I followed the link and agree that it does look much the same as the PC680 (PVR25) but at a lower price. I suspect that whichever of these batteries I choose its going to take a leap of faith that the ECU upgrade I have recently completed will help lighten the load on the battery so that it doesn't suffer like some of the other owner's experiences, i.e. BCF and Geoff D.

 

Out of interest, BCF/Geoff, are/were you using a dizzy with your Xflow when you had problems with these batteries starting it?

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geoffd

Mine is a proper distributor.  None of this new-fangled electronic stuff for me!

 

Geoff

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BCF

Yes dizzy and coil, Wosp hi torque starter, dry sump, 1700cc hi comp (for a crossflow :) ) engine, twin 40 Dellorto's etc etc. I reverted to a standard car battery, can't remember the aH now, but it was pretty hefty to cope with the prolonged cranking required.

I should point out that my XE is a completely standard engine, not high compression as Dave has suggested.

I think you'll be ok with the electronic ignition - my advice would be to go for the pvr22 plus the extras you want, give it a go, if it doesn't work then resell on here and at least you'll know. Make sure you condition the battery first though, I found that mine came through fairly flat.

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BillyPee

Thanks Geoff/BCF for the prompt replies.

 

On the basis that the problems were confined to Xflows running dizzies, and that the PVR22 is fine with other 2 litre engines on ECUs, I have taken the plunge and ordered the PVR22 bundle and will give it a go.

 

I'll be sure to post my results to this thread but it will probably be in the New Year before I get around to trying it.

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BillyPee

I have now got the PVR22 fitted, along with new cables to the kill switch and starter solenoid, plus to the engine and starter motor. Engine fires up a treat, even at +3°C. Car is still SORNed so can't comment on the battery performance under normal conditions yet. Battery light staying on, on the dash, unless I give it a bit of revs then it goes out. Alternator is charging the battery OK though as it reads over 14v when running. Not used the charger on the battery yet though.

 

In summary, it looks very promising but the proof will be in the Spring when I get back on the road.

 

Thanks everyone for the help and input.

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