ST170

[Chasmon]

Hi all,

I have got the opportunity to get a low mileage and reasonably priced ST170 engine. I know from previous discussion that this is a Zetec with a modified head and some other changes, ie its got variable valve timing.

My question is has anyone fitted one of these? And if so can you run the std injection and Ford ECU? I will have a chat with WF as well but wanted to know your experiences.

This is the kind of power I'm looking for and the torque figures show lots of grunt not only at top end - this appeals to me for driving it on the road. Hopefully a low mileage one will be a reliable option...

**And yes I've done a search but only really found articles with AdHawkins talking about his TinTop   ***

Cheers

C

[Guest]

No reason why you can't fit that engine , but you can get the same power from a standard 2.0 Zetec on throttle bodies , the instalation of a different engine always causes headaches , though this may be the sort of challenge you want .

Chosing something that many tuners are developing makes far more sense as i think that you will always want more in the future , the ST170 lump may restict that or be finacially prohibitive .

I would do a lot more research on the specifc engine as fitting it might only be the start of any issues you have and if your on a budget then a non standard config is never the way to go.

Howerver if you like a challenge .go for it , it may well be very rewarding , but then a 240bhp standard s2000 engine can be picked up for less than a grand theses days.

[Ian Podmore]

The ST170 engine certainly has a great spread of torque as standard, and revs freely to 7,000 rpm.

Biggest issue maybe if standard Ford ECU can be used, as modern tin top ECU's sometimes need all sorts of inputs from the car, not just engine related.

Standard inlet may fit as it sits below the top of the cam cover, but would it be clear of the steering column, and what about the alternator?. Don't know about exhaust either, it may need a one off manifold making. Also is the cam cover any higher than a normal Zetec?

As last post says, you would basically have an engine that wasn't really upgradable for sensible money, but then again a very reliable 170bhp isn't bad anyway.

[BEN99W]

I don't think it does have variable valve timing, but uses a variable inlet manifold instead. This may mean that  if you don't use the standard ford set-up, you won't have the 170bhp without spending more money...

[thos]

It's Variable Valve Timing alright, link to some text from here - http://boardroom.wscc.co.uk/cgi-bin....0;st=15

I looked at one of these before, and spoke to a few tuners. General consensus was that's it's a bad move if you want to tune the engine later.

[Chasmon]

Thanks all for your comments, all are helpful.

I'm still mid delema really... I ultimately want a Duratec but the only one I've found is £1400! and in London (although I'm prepared to travel). I don't really want to spend this much...

I would like a Zetec, but it seems to get equivalent power out of it, it will become a thirsty beast not ideal an everyday car for 6 months of the year.

**waits to be told that westfields are about smiles per mile not miles per gallon**

I figure that if I could use the ST170 lump on an aftermarket ECU then it might be a more efficient way of getting BHP...Although yes it means I'd possibly find upgrading harder...

[thos]

If you want mpg, then fit a diesel. Otherwise the difference between Zetec/Duratec/Aftermarket-ECU/OEM-ECU isnt worth talking about.

[adhawkins]

Fit a Vx. Loads of people have done it, and out of the box you should be looking at something in the region of 170 BHP (if not more) with loads of scope for improvement later.

Andy

[Chasmon]

If you want mpg, then fit a diesel. Otherwise the difference between Zetec/Duratec/Aftermarket-ECU/OEM-ECU isnt worth talking about.

What model will fit?

[Ian Podmore]

I ultimately want a Duratec but the only one I've found is £1400!

You should be able to get a used one for about £700 or so.  You can get a new one for about £1,250 plus VAT!  Much better option than a VX nowdays really, 190bhp to start off, 220bhp with just new cams. You can't do that with a VX or a Zetec for that matter, and it's an all alloy engine to boot.  If I were building one again now, there would definately be a Duratec engine in it.

[Chasmon]

Thanks for realising that I don't really want a Diesel!

What company does the £1250 refer to. Ultimately I figure based on that then the entire engine will cost approx:

Engine £1250

Sump £350

Bell Housing £250

TB's £500

ECU £400

Misc £100

Total £2850

Is this realistic?

My alternative had been to buy the ST170 and run stock injection with an aftermarket ECU...costing more like £1200. I wil try some Zetec specialists tomorrow to guage whether this would be simple or not. I chatted to a friend today who said he knows people who have upgraded there kit over the winter and then found they hated the way there cars drive as a result ie all top end and no low down torque. After all 99.9% of this cars use will be on the road and this engine has a flat torque curve from 2200 and top end power of 168BHPish (isn't that the best of both worlds?)

I'm not keen to go the VX route due to the age of the engines, the rarity of the red tops and believe it or not some of the silly prices people wnat for high milers! Of yeah and I hear its heavy.

[Ian Podmore]

What company does the £1250 refer to

I'd read that Ammo at Raceco will sell them for that. This is the price that engine tuners can buy the engine for from Ford, but don't forget the VAT on top of the  £1,250. If you brought the engine and ECU and TB's etc from a supplier, they may be able to do the engine for that.

As for no low end torque being a problem..... in a Westfield.... With an 1800cc or above engine I really can't see this being an issue as the car is so light unless you go to a totally mad race spec cam.

For the amount of money you are looking at to do the ST170 engine, I think you would be better with a standard 2 litre Zetec with TB's and ECU etc. They give 165bp in that spec with standard cams, more with some uprated cams.  With installing a Zetec, support is available from lots of owners and suppliers.

[gadrego]

Engine £1250

Sump £350

Bell Housing £250

TB's £500

ECU £400

Misc £100

Total £2850

Add an exhaust to your list and a few hundred quid contingency.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Not sure what engine you're using at the moment; but if you're on carbs, you'll also need to budget for a high pressure  injection type fuel pump, plus a return fuel line from the fuel rail back to the tank.

Have you included the cost of the fuel rail, pressure regulator and injectors in there?

Is you're ecu figure including the cost of a loom?

Will you need to change any clutch components?

Any re-plumbing work needed?

Are you looking at direct to head TB's or do you need an intake manifod? What air filter is required, can you re-use you're existing set up?

Will the ecu come with a base map for your engine, or will you have to get it mapped straight off?

Sorry if it sounds like a long picky list, just trying to think of what I had to do, when I changed from carbs to tb's.  

[Blatman]

but then a 240bhp standard s2000 engine can be picked up for less than a grand theses days

Where? At that price, I have two buyers with cash waiting...

I'm not keen to go the VX route due to the age of the engines

Er, so a 1995 Zetec is better than a 1995 Vx?

And yes I know that the argument is that the ST170 is a "modified" Zetec, but it's still almost a 20 year old design, just like a Vx. As for heavy, if there's more than about 5 kilos in it, I'd be surprised. Apart from a *small* power advantage in favour of the Vx when considering their outputs in standard form, you should consider them interchangeable when costing out which is best to fit to a Westfield that currently has something else in the engine bay.

If you really want a modern/"new" engine, then a Duratec is the way to go. The Honda, whilst a nice engine, will cause much heartache (and wallet ache) when the nitty gritty starts...