Catalytic converter competition BEC

[S2T]

Trying to find the general answer to my question. Does a bike engined competition car require a catalytic converter to be fitted for competition. The reason for asking is that bikes and Legend cars powered by bike engines dont seem to have the requirement, whilst it is a rule in the series I am competing in. However I have the only BEC and just wondering whther to approach the scrutineers with a logical arguement not to have one fitted

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Yes, assuming you are talking about a Westfield, it was manufactured after 31/12/99 and it is competing under MSA Regulations.

 

5.16.7. Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars, manufactured after 31/12/99.

 

Motorcycles race under the ACU regulations and Legends are not Production Based Saloon Cars or Specialst Production Cars, therefore the above regulation would not apply to these cars.

 

[S2T]

Thanks Mark appreciate your prompt reply

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Is the car road legal or not? If not, then it shouldn't need one

 

[Mark (smokey mow)]

5 hours ago, John said:

Is the car road legal or not? If not, then it shouldn't need one

 

The regulation doesn't distinguish between road going and not going John. The rule applies to both.

 

"Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars, manufactured after 31/12/99."

[Mark (smokey mow)]

On 5 August 2008 at 16:50, Mark Stanton - WSCC Sponsors and Promotions said:

 

QUOTE

Following a telephone call to the MSA on 5 November this was a verbal reply to questions raised.

E-mails were issued on 6 November - please note no written response has been received from the MSA        

"Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engined production based saloon, touring and sports cars, including specialist production and kit cars manufactured after 31 December 1999."

Championships first registered prior to 31 December 2007 do not require the above ruling to be a mandatory requirement until 1 January 2009

Correct

For new championships established 2008, this ruling will be mandatory for 2008.

Correct

Where kit cars are specifically concerned: e.g. Westfield, Caterham, Locost, Raw Striker, Genesis, MK, Donkevoort etc

Does the term "manufactured" refer to the date of manufacture of the chassis and not that of the overall completion by the independent self builder or it's SVA, date of registration and/or MOT test where road-going. ?  

The word manufactured refers to the original date of the manufacture of the chassis.

Will it be mandatory for kit cars manufactured post 31 December 1999 to have a catalytic converter fitted regardless of age of engine, which may be pre 1999 and not designed for use with a catalytic converter. ?  

Yes, it will - in that instance a catalytic converter is mandatory

Where kit cars are manufactured prior to 31 December 1999 but use an engine of a later date the use of a catalytic converter is not mandatory. ?

Correct - in that instance a catalytic converter is not mandatory

Where a catalytic converter is mandatory, this is to be applied to all road-going kit cars whether they be Q plated or year plated. ? (Please note that Q plated vehicles are subject to a visible smoke test only when undergoing an MOT)  

Correct regardless of MOT and road legislation a catalytic converter is mandatory for motorsport use at MSA licensed events.

Use of a catalytic converter is mandatory, subject to age of manufacture, when a motorbike engine fitment is used for the car build. ?

Correct - a catalytic converter is mandatory whatever petrol engine fitment.

Is the rule 12.16.7 applicable to both road-going and modified non-road-going classes of kit car ?

Yes

The use of catalytic converters is to be checked and "policed" by the scrutineers of the meeting, which may from time to time be supplemented with the use of specialist certificated gas analysing equipment with trained operatives ?  

This is the intention

The ruling 12.16.7 is applicable to all forms of sprinting, hill climbing and circuit racing. ?  

Yes

 

http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/topic/63692-msa-magazine/?do=findComment&comment=635188

This thread started when the regulation was first introduced has all the answers and particularly this one asked by Mark Stanton

 

Q "Is the rule 12.16.7 applicable to both road-going and modified non-road-going classes of kit car ?"

A "Yes"

[Arm]

Yes and I will be looking around to make sure all kit cars road going or otherwise comply. 

[I H Freelance Services]

I was intending to do a few speed series event this year but this may have thrown a spanner in the works , i have a mega blade  which was first registered on 7 /1/2000  running a non cat 2015 cbr 1000 engine ,  i would assume the chassis was manifactured before the 31/12/1999  as the car was built from a kit    How can i check the year my chassis was manufactured and then gain proof of that 

[Mark (smokey mow)]

5 minutes ago, I H Freelance Services said:

I was intending to do a few speed series event this year but this may have thrown a spanner in the works , i have a mega blade  which was first registered on 7 /1/2000  running a non cat 2015 cbr 1000 engine ,  i would assume the chassis was manifactured before the 31/12/1999  as the car was built from a kit    How can i check the year my chassis was manufactured and then gain proof of that 

The 10th letter/number in the VIN will tell you the year of manufacture

 

[XTR2Turbo]

1 hour ago, I H Freelance Services said:

I was intending to do a few speed series event this year but this may have thrown a spanner in the works , i have a mega blade  which was first registered on 7 /1/2000  running a non cat 2015 cbr 1000 engine ,  i would assume the chassis was manifactured before the 31/12/1999  as the car was built from a kit    How can i check the year my chassis was manufactured and then gain proof of that 

a walk around the paddock at most events will probably show that the rule doesn't seem  to be very strictly enforced ...

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

9 hours ago, XTR2Turbo said:

a walk around the paddock at most events will probably show that the rule doesn't seem  to be very strictly enforced ...

If at all! Plus most kit cars are Q plated so not immediately identifiable as post 1999 anyway

 

[Mark (smokey mow)]

10 hours ago, XTR2Turbo said:

a walk around the paddock at most events will probably show that the rule doesn't seem  to be very strictly enforced ...

 

26 minutes ago, John said:

If at all! Plus most kit cars are Q plated so not immediately identifiable as post 1999 anyway

 

I don't dissagree with either of you and I've never been tested for it myself.  A similar thread recently on uphillracers was commented on by others that they had been tested for them by scruitineers at some venues using infared thermometers so one assumes that checks are being made on occasions.

identifying the age of the car also isn't too dificult since both the V5 document for roadgoing and the Vehicle Passport for non-roadgoing both show the date of manfacture.

personally I run one on my car, as the cost of the cat is less than the entry fee I would loose if I was to be turned away from a venue for not having one,

[XTR2Turbo]

I agree Mark and also the spirit of competing should be to follow the regs.  It was of course a silly rule but I guess I was flagging that if it was me the risk is probably low and worth taking at early events rather than not competing until you got it sorted.

 

Most places will add a cat into an existing silencer if you don't have space to add infront.

Most places will test noise though so you do need a good silencer.

 

David

[mark.anson]

On 20 April 2017 at 19:30, Arm said:

Yes and I will be looking around to make sure all kit cars road going or otherwise comply. 

And the big stirring spoon award goes to Mr Mason lol 

[Mark Stanton]

oh no .............. not the cat thread ............... I remember that telephone call