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Target Times For 2017


John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO

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OK, I hope I've not started a sh*t storm, I view it as constructive feedback :blush: I also appreciate the time and effort that all the SS team and the hard work and time given up for our enjoyment..

I just think we have all the data we need without the need for calculations etc. Use the times we have, the most accurate data available...

Current Target times are Speed Series Records and often and often National Class records, these are generally set in optimal conditions by some of the best drivers in the country!

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5 hours ago, AdamR said:

Ciril coming in as a newbie with Ditchfinder Pro tyres and a bog standard 1700 X-Flow and winning the whole shebang,  

Where can I get these Ditchfinders they sound awesome... :) 

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1 hour ago, Scottish Bloke said:

OK, I hope I've not started a sh*t storm, I view it as constructive feedback :blush: I also appreciate the time and effort that all the SS team and the hard work and time given up for our enjoyment..

I just think we have all the data we need without the need for calculations etc. Use the times we have, the most accurate data available...

Current Target times are Speed Series Records and often and often National Class records, these are generally set in optimal conditions by some of the best drivers in the country!

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. Put the calculators back in the pencil cases...

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Personally I think it works really well as it is. There just needs to be a consistent set of records against which to compare, and the only way to achieve this is to leave the regulations alone.

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1 hour ago, phelpsa said:

Personally I think it works really well as it is. There just needs to be a consistent set of records against which to compare, and the only way to achieve this is to leave the regulations alone.

There is that...

I just think it could be simplified  using actual data, therefor no need to tinker and calculate. I'm no expert, it's just a thought I had, I certainly don't have all the answers.

 

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Dave 
The A1 times you quote are incorrect AFAIK

2016 was 69.48secs and 2017 has got easier and is 69.82 secs so its 0.36secs easier!

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3 hours ago, John said:

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. Put the calculators back in the pencil cases...

Ah but then we couldn't call them Terry Times :rolleyes::rolleyes::d

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Personally I also think that it works well as it is (was) and all will sort itself over time (and was nearly that way anyway). I also don't feel that any class should be compared to any other class and should each be independent. An exceptional competitor / car combo could screw things up for everyone if that's the case. 

One final word is that I also don't think competitors should have a hand in setting the times in any case for the interests of 'vested interests' . Not that I'm saying anything underhand has been done but in the interests of openness it could cast doubt. Therefore best to leave it to actual records and be done with it

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Thanks for the hard work one and all and appreciate there is more going on in the background for the future. 

Have John Hoyles times been put back in? These were excluded in 2016 - I wonder if that's what's caused some of the big changes? 

Too late to debate 2017 now, although a thread like this for future plans might be useful?

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4 minutes ago, BCF said:

Thanks for the hard work one and all and appreciate there is more going on in the background for the future. 

Have John Hoyles times been put back in? These were excluded in 2016 - I wonder if that's what's caused some of the big changes? 

Too late to debate 2017 now, although a thread like this for future plans might be useful?

I think John's times were excluded because his engine was a 2.2 litre.

As to being too late to debate 2017s regs, its only the target times which we are debating and not the regs. Target times can change at any point through the year unlike the regs which are approved by the MSA before the season starts

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Thanks for the info about Class A and B target times Terry, I didn't realise that was how they were set.

In that case, how come they aren't being run as 'no target time / new event' like in the 2014 (?) season when Adrian cleaned up due to there being no target / previous times for the new 1.8L class? It would surely give newbies more of an incentive to get on board - they definitely have a chance of scoring big points - but clearly they won't win the overall as some more experienced drivers will have set some 'actual' target times through class records when they have run at the same event in the past. This is a genuine question, not an 'attack'!

Happy to call if you prefer but there has to be at least one other person wondering the same thing :) When I know more about how things are currently set up I'll definitely put forward some ideas to Panda.

 

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John Hoyles times with the larger stroked engine were excluded for class D. The problem with using records all the time is that several classes do not have a record. Also last year we did have a situation where (because we were using Records) some events had TTs where for example the slower class C times were faster than class E. 

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Following John's comment about Competitors not being involved with setting TTs then if anyone else wants to volunteer to set the target times please come forward and take my place on the SSOT because its a pain in the A*** to do. Ask Graham Frankland, who did it with me this year, about how time consuming it is. The SSOT voted not to use just class Records but to have a comparison between classes if necessary. WE NEED A SIMPLER SYSTEM!!!!! It would be quite difficult to get a Non Competitor to do it IMO. 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, terry everall said:

Following John's comment about Competitors not being involved with setting TTs then if anyone else wants to volunteer to set the target times please come forward and take my place on the SSOT because its a pain in the A*** to do. Ask Graham Frankland, who did it with me this year, about how time consuming it is. The SSOT voted not to use just class Records but to have a comparison between classes if necessary. WE NEED A SIMPLER SYSTEM!!!!! It would be quite difficult to get a Non Competitor to do it IMO. 

 

Terry - this isn't a dig at you or any fellow SSOT member and I for one appreciate all the work you put in at SSOT level. However, why cause yourselves all this aggro when a simpler system would eradicate it? Nobody asked for calculated times. The committee for some reason took it upon themselves to do this for no apparent reason. This season a TT existed for every class as far as I can tell so why was there a need to do anything?

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John

You are incorrect as we do not have a record or TT for every class at all events

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