Onliest Smeg David Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'm surprised this has'nt created a greater reaction amongst the owners as I still see a lot of RAC bars with rose joints used in speed events this year. A bit frustrating for me as my car is now more road orientated with hood doors screen etc so buying an MSA bar would spoil that. Assuming the bar thickness is ok all that would be required is an alternatives to rose joints, a fixed joint of some kind, or just get the back stays welded on instead. Anyone thought of doing this as an alternative to chucking the RAC bar. SImon I'm with you. Hope RAC ok for us competing.MSA rop costs and impractical for full weather gear which I need for all weather driving. So if welding rose joints OK I could get it done. If not then would have to get a custom hood made as well. I know somewhere that would be able to do it, so will call in and get ball park figure. But this may hamper my ability to compete in SS next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattt Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 FYI: http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic/115283-msa-half-cage-fitting-by-factory/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 The only way to get a definate answer is to ask the MSA which as I know the right people I will do. However I don;t have a good photo of one of these bars, could someone please email me one. Also if you could confirm the bar outer diameter. Thanks Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Thanks Nick Outer bar diameter for main, cross and rear stays is 38-39mm. My bar is 410mm high. There's a fair few of us with this type of roll bar in the Speed Series (counted at least 10 at Blyton), so expect there will be an impact on entries in 2016 if these are not now acceptable in Roadgoing classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spm Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Info from the factory "Our roll bar is made from T45 steel, it is 3.2mm thick and 38mm in diameter." So tube would "appear" to be compliant, its just the issue with rose joints. Out of interest does the Caged cage not use rose joints on the back stays ? At the end of the day I suppose the MSA are the only ones that can answer the compliance issue. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy (Sycho) Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Info from the factory "Our roll bar is made from T45 steel, it is 3.2mm thick and 38mm in diameter." So tube would "appear" to be compliant, its just the issue with rose joints. Out of interest does the Caged cage not use rose joints on the back stays ? At the end of the day I suppose the MSA are the only ones that can answer the compliance issue. Simon Yes the caged cage does use rose joints at the bottom of the rear stays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 My caged cage does not have any rose joints at the bottom!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy (Sycho) Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Odd how olds your cage? Mine was new this year, but even the aero race build manual from 2008 shows them. http://www.manikllc.com/manuals/Westfield_AeroRace_Build_Manual-2008-07-07.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spm Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Odd how olds your cage? Mine was new this year, but even the aero race build manual from 2008 shows them. http://www.manikllc.com/manuals/Westfield_AeroRace_Build_Manual-2008-07-07.pdf mmm thought so. So tube is ok and rose joints seem to be acceptable. Now I'm confused ! Lets see what the MSA say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 mmm thought so. So tube is ok and rose joints seem to be acceptable. Now I'm confused ! Lets see what the MSA say. Don't forget though that the rose joints are only at one end now, whereas most RAC bars have them at both ends of the struts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnev Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Just seen this topic. Very few drivers actually get to test the effectiveness of their roll bars. As a result I suspect that we take it for granted that they will protect us in an accident. In my opinion the standard Westfield roll bar is for cosmetic purposes only. Since crashing and rolling my car at Curborough (three times!), I would think twice about driving any kit car on the road, let alone the race track, without an MSA approved roll bar and the correct seat (head) height. My MSA spec roll bar saved my life! Having said that, I'll be fitting a full roll cage next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I think that the rose joint at the bottom of the backstays may be ok but not a rose joint at top and bottom as that creates too much possible movement in an accident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Your roll John cirtainly make one think more about safety. I do a high road mileage, sometimes in our worst of British weather so I highly value having full weather gear, And I doubt Wendz (SWMBO) would join me at all without it. Ultimately I will go MSA roll bar with a custom full hood. Interchangeable aero screen / full screen And bolt on front cage for competition. So until then I've been driving slow and carefully, and would still like to continue to amble round some sprints in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnev Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 The backstay chassis clevis may be weakest link. One of my clevises split and the backstay came loose. The roll bar bent as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrie Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I asked a scrutineer today. Basically no idea. Presumably their training will include this later in the year. And my RAC bar is welded at the top. Is it the only one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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