WSCC Speed Series Class discussion

[Scottish Bloke]

Wow, personally I think we need to stop meddling with this.

 

I agree with John in the fact that over time (10 years) I have developed a car which fits a current class (F) and have invested a huge amount of time and money in the process. I'm not the quickest or the best by a long shot but it was my choice to develop in this way and still fit within a class of choice.

You cannot surely now say that I cannot use X gearbox (5k) or have paddles (2k) or use traction ( I don't currently) My car becomes ineligible to compete in that class, what do I do with it now?? sell it for spares, what I spent last year would buy two Westfields, my choice.

 

In my opinion target times were a brave move, and now I'd 90% agree the way forward, however if the goal posts are continually moved, that alone will put people off competing. We mustn't forget that as we compete and go quicker, we develop our cars and improve as drivers. My own SS history proves this perfectly, winning a championship in '09, taking a year or so out and came back struggling to come 3rd or 4th

 

There may possibly be ways to improve our series, personally I don't think we're doing too much wrong...are we as a Club promoting the Championship enough, do people actually know what it is?

 

Why do I compete, because I enjoy it, driving socialising, and banter. Most of my friends come from the SS, it's what drives me, it's in my blood, please stop faffing on with it...

[alexander72]

I agree with Mr Kerr and majority of the sentiment here but I have to disagree with Lee Smith.  In the lower classes it is not down to budget and spend or modern engine IMO.  The lesser powered cars in A and B are often competing against each other - especially in the wet.

 

I think the wet actually assists lower powered cars - even mine with the "advanced traction control" (my large frame squeezed into a narrow)

 

Whilst I am not competing this year I can just about remember 2014 and my old mighty cross flow, with very little tinkering cos I am mechanically inept was competitive.

 

We must continue to remember that the WSCC is a time trial for the driver and it is that which is paramount.  It also the most friendly and supportive environment in which to start competitive motorsport. 

 

Please either leave well alone or follow a structure as suggested eloquently by Barry Slingsby.

 

yours in motorsport 

 

James 

[alexander72]

David Birch raises a good question about intermediates... 

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Picking up on the debate about road cars and race cars with an MOT, what defines a road car to me is the size of the fuel tank. A westfield which is a "true road car" will have a fuel tank capable of being able to drive the car further than the nearest MOT station once a year.

[AdamR]

David Birch raises a good question about intermediates...

I would suggest its the following 'procedure'...

That looks fun, I fancy a bit of competition, I'll have a go at that.

Do a few events, have some fun.

You realise its expensive and you're not getting anywhere. Don't get enough track time to improve your driving.

Also realise you have zero chance of winning anything due to the machinery of other competitors in 'road legal' class and call it a day.

Love the idea of a road blat at lunchtime! Perhaps not feasible but it would be a good test.

Fuel tank is a good one Mark, but you could just fit a regular tank and not put much in it...

Sounds like leaving it alone might be best!

(Sorry for brief reply, on phone)

[XTR2Turbo]

Windy has started entering a class with a whole mixture of cars from his Escort to minis and Ginetta.

 

They have a handicap / class structure based on power to weight with driver.  At some events the organiser takes some scales so you can weigh the car.  Powers are self declared but I guess they could ask for proof if there seemed to be someone that stood out.

 

Are there reasons why we don't do this rather than have the engine cc distinction?

[AdamR]

I also like that suggestion David, I guess the issue is in being honest with power outputs. From first hand experience, a group rolling road session is a nightmare to organise and usually fraught with inaccuracies!

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Lets be clear - a man with money I am not (I work for a charity). However, I am prepared to tinker with my car and play with suspension setup and do a lot of things to it myself. The best value for money performance enhancing component I have ever bought was various suspension springs at £30 each

[Terry Everall]

You cant take car out of a paddock area at lunchtime as they would need to be scrutineered again! Thats the Rules!

I have said it before and I will say it again.........

"I AM TOTALLY AGAINST POWER TO WEIGHT RATIOS" even if it includes driver weights. It will put people off and I already have a big list of reasons that are prohibitive and not conducive to our Speed Series IMHO.  

[mhc]

So almost 3 pages of comments.

which will most likely morph into a lot more.

Many of which are just repeats of previous replies with no new inputs or radical thinking, except one.

Please read carefully the comments by Mr John Lowdon.

If you wish to compete all you need is commitment, money and a desire and ability to win.

Money will get you the car, commitment will get you to the required number of events, ability will get you there, only if your

competitors are slower or few in number.

So we come down to numbers in classes.

There are too many classes.

All you need is 3, up to (A) 1700cc (inline with the rest of the country) over (B) 1700cc and © modified production.

A and B on road tyres, C on slicks.

No prizes for novices, serve your time because as in life there is no comfort zone in competition.

And if you run the classes to a set of regulations, police them!

I have never seen a Westfield speed series car checked for eligibility.

Just a few thoughts from my bunker waiting for the missiles to arrive.

[Marto303]

I can't see that a road blat would prove anything, I kind of feel that my car is one of the novice cars that this road going debate is aimed at.

I built it to be sprint / hill climb orientated which it is but still has a 15ltr tank, lights, horn, mirrors etc and is MOT'd taxed and insured.

Sure I wouldn't want to tour Scotland in it but 50 road miles no problem at all, so what would that prove.

At our novice level we are all very close on times when we compete at the same venue as our abilities are very similar.

Put any of the experienced drivers in our cars and they'll go faster regardless of 2 seats, small headlamps or a full size tank, they are just better drivers and that's what we should be working towards ( well that's what I'm trying to be )

Other than getting more entrants at same events it's best left how is for me.

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

"I built it to be sprint / hill climb orientated which it is but still has a 15ltr tank, lights, horn, mirrors etc and is MOT'd taxed and insured. "

 

and to me this yours is road going.... and the class competitions in A & B are working beautifully.

 

john

[woodman]

I think all Westys are crap to drive on the road

I would use MX5 , Boxter, etc anyday over Westy

SO

I like Barrys or MHC simple approach, or just leave it alone

[AdamR]

No prizes for novices, serve your time because as in life there is no comfort zone in competition.

 

Some very good ideas Mick.

 

The only thing I would say is that to want to enter the SS you must have a competitive streak. If there is zero chance of winning anything them to me it is pointless entering (you can just do a track day for the same money, less stress and get 20x the track time). I am not sure how others feel, but if their thoughts match mine then you may end up with no new blood coming in and the series dies off. It's the same at the moment in another sport I am very involved with.

 

Simple class structure as outlined by Mick, and novices compete within these, but there is a separate novice award per class at the end of the day?

 

Also agree that more Westies at events will be a good thing, I don't think you could make events mandatory but maybe offer an incentive at certain ones to try and encourage a larger entry. Not sure what would be considered 'fair' though (reduced entry costs, increased points, etc).

[Paul Morcom]

So almost 3 pages of comments.

which will most likely morph into a lot more.

Many of which are just repeats of previous replies with no new inputs or radical thinking, except one.

Please read carefully the comments by Mr John Lowdon.

If you wish to compete all you need is commitment, money and a desire and ability to win.

Money will get you the car, commitment will get you to the required number of events, ability will get you there, only if your

competitors are slower or few in number.

So we come down to numbers in classes.

There are too many classes.

All you need is 3, up to (A) 1700cc (inline with the rest of the country) over (B) 1700cc and © modified production.

A and B on road tyres, C on slicks.

No prizes for novices, serve your time because as in life there is no comfort zone in competition.

And if you run the classes to a set of regulations, police them!

I have never seen a Westfield speed series car checked for eligibility.

Just a few thoughts from my bunker waiting for the missiles to arrive.

 

I like the idea of fewer classes but I do think there needs to be reward/recognition/incentive (awards or whatever you want to call them) for Novices, Intermediates and Experts outside of the class structures.

 

But interestingly the real problem with our classes is scoring them fairly to enable an overall series winner - so may be we should drop that award!!! [added to provoke discussion]. Personally I am in favour of having an overall Novice and Series winners and would like the introduction of an Intermediate overall winner.

 

Can be done as per my previous post on number of event/experience. Novice = up to 15 events, Intermediate = 16 - 30 events, Experts = plus 30 events.  plus some guidance on level of experience with the SS Co-ordinator as the final decision maker and once you have won at a level you are immediately promoted to the next level .  The number of events are examples and I am not suggesting would be exactly the right level of events for each category.